"You've got to stand from something, or you will fall for anything.". Jacketed or clad (electroplated) WCs typically dont have need of the grooves, though sometimes the noses may sport some manner of a crimping groove. Re: 38 Special Factory 158gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter or Lead Round Nose For Distinguished Revolver. If youre not a patron, please consider supporting us we cant do this work, at this level, without your continued support. Never underestimate shot placement, wise words for sure. For that matter so are wadcutters and semi-wadcutters. This agency issues 1911-pattern pistols to its officers, and for many years their issued round was 230 grain FMJ, or hardball. The Jello Junkies would have you believe that hardball is a reckless choice for a duty round, because of its propensity to penetrate deeply in calibrated gelatin, but this agencys actual experience in the street was quite different. I've read about hand-loaders taking hollow-base wadcutter bullets and seating them upside down for use as self-defense ammunition, but results were often erratic. Its not all great with wadcutters, because in one area they dont shine at all: reloading. From my .38spl experience, the hollow base wadcutter bullet easily gave excellent accuracy, no doubt about it. Terminal Effectiveness. Even after I became able to fire more powerful and much louder ammo, I never chose to use the most powerful stuff available for the job. That said, I do notice more difference in my LCRx, where it is about 2-2.5 inches low. 158-gr. I use either the 140 or 150 grain wadcutter to insure POA =POI at 10 meters. I admit it, Im a bullet nerd. But since I generally find ammo I like I dont change very often anyhow. Secondly, the SWC has a somewhat better ballistic coefficient (BC) than the WC, and theoretically may perform better over distance. the most accurate load was a 185 Hornady XTP over a starting load of bullseye. Short-barreled revolvers are harder to shoot, kick more and deliver less performance than those that are bigger. But for Every Day Carry it would be bulky. Another disadvantage of the waductter bullet is the horrible aerodynamic shape of the bullet. Philippe, thank you for writing from Uruguay! (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if needed) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. For progressive reloaders with an automated bullet feed, the double-end wadcutter (DEWC) was designed, simply a cylinder beveled on each end. If you got a good hit, maybe the bullet just acted like FMJ and slipped through. Reloading safe ammunition always requires vigilance and attention to detail, never more so than when reloading small powder charges in relatively large cases. Bullets do unpredictable things in living targets, so picking a good test medium is very difficult, but I think the gelatin is about as good as it gets right nowespecially if we combine it with data gleaned from real shootings. For the non-handloader I would highly recommend buying a case of name-brand US manufacture 148-grain wadcutter and marrying it to a pair of Airweight revolvers, 2 and 4 as primary carry and backup or New York Reload. Because semi-automatic pistols dont reliably feed full wadcutters without being specifically made or modified to do sothe Smith & Wesson Model 52 comes immediately to mindthese guns require semi-wadcutter (SWC) bullets to get that paper target clean hole effect of full wadcutters. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. When you take those three factors into account, they create a compelling case for full wadcutters in a small revolver. Its also good to keep in mind that over the last 110+ years, the .38 Special in the wadcutter and plain semi wadcutter configurations have more than likely planted more bad guys in the M.E.s office than all the boutique loads that have come out in the last 40 years. Back before expanding hollowpoints were the norm for defensive handgun ammo, the bullets with wide, flat noses had the best reputations for hitting the hardest and delivering the most shock. They speed load fine and also have a flat meplat. I wasnt the ballistic nut and as informed as now and that it was just me having an issue with qualification which was always more difficult than with the service 4 inch Model 10. Ive bought into it. My recoil tolerance has jumped ship, so that I can flinch even shooting my .22 rifles. jacketed hollow point. Mikes words, I could almost hear the sigh of relief through the wires when I told our friend that it wasnt necessary to carry Magnum ammo in a Magnum revolver is an understatement. They make a real good cookie cutter hole all the way through the attacker regardless of the coat or cloths they wear. Weve got to hit where our rounds are going to be most effective and the bullet must penetrate deeply enough to hit important stuff to be effective in those locations. MnMW, thank you so much for the kind words! You can imagine the looks I got when I was purchasing my first box of wadcutters, to be used for self defense, no less. After the experience with the .38 +P loads, the thought of shooting .357 Magnum had our shooter concerned. Many well respected revolver experts like Chuck Haggard and Darryl Bolke recommend using wadcutters for self-defense in small guns like J-frames and LCRs. Terminology around firearms can get a little confusing, especially when it comes to pistol projectiles. It wont expand much at all, but it also wont run out of steam prematurely. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Plus, we also have jacketed hollow point for self-defense. In any event the 9mm was easier to control and had better ballistics than the magnum out of a snub nosed revolver. Also why would someone go w a 380acp when u can buy 9mm cheaper w greater selection in both ammo and firearms? This 14-8 is a "Classic" case in point. Using wadcutters would make it a lot more economical to have my practice and carry loads be the exact same thing. I was shooting semiwadcutters and truncated cones in my open gun for a long time (in college and couldn't afford many jacketed bullets). Some of you are probably bullet nerds too. Carry what you want, but be dam good with all of them. lead wadcutter; 158-gr. Associated taxes and fees will be the responsibility of the winner. If you shoot indoors, stay away from lead, you'll gag at the line and so will the SO's. You can only do so much inside a .38 Special case within SAAMI limits. I have to confess that Im not familiar with Pauls meat test, but if it involves shooting butchered chunks of meat, then Im going to have to agree with Stuart. [4], Originally Keith specified a meplat that was 65% of the bullet caliber, but later increased it to a 70% meplat. If extremely well made, a premium bullet in any profile can be good. A plated semi wadcutter is simply a lead bullet washed in copper as opposed to having a thick copper jacket. That in turn would avoid issues of differing points of impact and the like. Choices for .38 Special ammo breaks down in a three-axis decision making tree. Unfortunately, the shape of the bullet combined with the extreme low velocity of the round also decreases the effectiveness of wadcutters when used for self-defense. Plating is much thinner and won't withstand much higher velocities than plain (soft) lead, but will cut down on airborne lead particles and smoke upon firing, making it better indoor range ammo. This is a new approach, and we see it working in the .38 Special. Wadcutter. Matts Bullets in Arkansas is an excellent resource for cast lead wadcutters, with a variety of types available at reasonable cost in quantities as low as 100. Just my $0.02: Ive seen plenty of raccoons dropped with .22 WMRs and even .22 LRs. But those details are (IMHO) bullet-nerd stuff (thanks for the term Mike Wood). All entries must be received by giveaway end date. Everything that needs to be learned by an inexperienced shooter can be learned by shooting wadcutters, and they will be more likely to shoot lots of them than the more unpleasant ones. Unlike autoloaders that basically need a round nose fmj bullet or something that tries to simulate it. Since Keith was a prime motivating force in the development of the first magnum handgun cartridge, the .357 Magnum, he was very interested in maximizing the amount of case volume for the slower burning powders needed to push heavy bullets at high velocities. Furthermore, the .38 Special, 148 grain wadcutter frequently shoots to point of aim on fixed sight guns, which eliminates the need for manual corrections by the shooter, and enhances the likelihood of precision under stress. Higher quality bullets, even lead like Oregon Trail, show very consistent results between RN, WC and SWC designs. All the others were right on at about 738-755. As we know, misses are a liability as well as ineffective! Ill note that while the FBIs 12 minimum has become the de facto industry standard, there are still reasonable disagreements about it. like the nice round holes they cut. Reloading your own is a great way to learn about your ammo, and develop loads that work for your practice, and to find out what your upper level of recoil tolerance is. Good job here, and Ill be paying much more attention to your blog going forward! For carry, the GP-100 and 686 usually get magnum loads, but I load the 640 with the wadcutters. I now have a M637 Airweight. When made from hardened lead, these rounds often penetrate better than round-nose bullets. Wadcutter Applications The flat shape of the nose is the primary feature of the wadcutter bullet. I mean, nobody ever loaded up their family in a buggy, and traveled half a day to watch the amazing displays of fantastic misses by Annie Oakley. Hotter loads are generally easier to shoot out of larger revolvers. Thanks Mark! Combined with the bullet cutting such a nice clean hole and their legendary accuracy, lots of folks just like it more. Its nose tapers until it reaches a smaller point. My learning and shooting philosophy is: one. Thetypical, low power, soft lead, target load does around 600-700 fps out of a snubby revolver, and penetrates around 16 inches in bare, calibrated gelatin. That said, if my memory is correct (it should be close, I watched the standard pressure ammo videos last week), wadcutters penetrated the pork ribs on the back of his target but were stopped by the skin (pig ears, if I remember right) on the back. Now, around our property I carry either Buffalo Bore or Underwood .38 special 150gr hard cast wadcutters. Both poly coated. Since even the most sophisticated hollowpoint cant do anything for you unless you can put it in the right place, we had to look for another option. Whenever I buy more range ammo I get confused. Wheel Gun Judy, I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. Contest void where prohibited by law. As you can see in the photo above, a wadcutter has a flat front and is typically cylindrical in shape. By The heavyweights top out at the normal for .38 Special weight, 158 grains. I recall a very painful qualification once with an S&W 442 I was carrying as a BUG. For IPSC major 230 FMJ, LRN, black bullets are the best IMO.. At 50$ per 1000 rounds though, how can you beat shooting lead if your gun runs reliable w/ it? 1. They run hotter (per my chronograph) than typical 148 grain wadcutters, but are not true magnum loads. It sounds like you have a very effective plan, and I think your custom wadcutters will do an excellent job for you. The SWC combines features of the traditional round-nosed bullets and the wadcutter bullets used in target shooting, and is used in both revolver and rifle cartridges for hunting, target shooting and plinking. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Theres been more than one accident from a novice shooter or unauthorized user firing a flush-seated 38 wadcutter that they thought was an empty case. Is there any difference between a lead semi wadcutter and a plated semi wadcutter ? I don't have any technical hypothesis as to why this is, it just is. The SWC bullet provides enough bullet nose to permit smooth feeding from magazine to chamber, while the flat meplat and sharp-edged ogive punch the clean hole. They wont take up much room, and youd have all the bases covered. A person who is so careless that they would hurt themselves in the manner you described, probably isnt safe with any gun/ammo combination, and shouldnt have access to them without proper supervision. I got tired of the Kentucky windage and painted my front sight to line up with POI as 7 yards. Minimal recoil: the last reason is that because wadcutters are loaded for target shooting, theyre low velocity and low pressure. They were so easy to shoot. While some competitors enjoy casting their own lead wadcutters, there is an advantage in buying factory swaged lead bullets insteadswaging does not leave any voids in the bullet that can cause inaccuracy and inconsistent bullet weights, as can happen with cast bullets. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. You get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get. Going to 5.4 grs. Heres hoping it doesnt get too much worse. shes just a girl. Not all SWC are created equal. Along with this thought, I confess to shooting a WFN lead boolit loading of the 180gr variety in my revolvers, simply because it is VERY controllable in my revolvers for me, along with being more accurate than I am on occasion. I only remember seeing RNL. Reloading. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Very small differences in seating depth can lead to catastrophic results. Factory Remington wadcutters give about 700 fps in the snub and about 750 fps in the 4-inch pencil barrel, and shoot to the fixed sights. Chief among them is ease of reloading. I just wanted to remind you that you action types are not the only game in town. A few .38 Special cartridges, from left: 148-gr. Winchester used soft swaged bullets and they clocked a bit faster than the Remington or Federal loads. Its my favorite cartridge for pest control around the farm. Wadcutters are an anomaly. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. Why would we let them have guns?" easily changed ramp.) The pointy, rounded bullet will slip through tissue and leave a wound track thats smaller in diameter than the bullet itself, because the tissue will temporarily stretch to allow the passage of the bullet, then recover. 38 , 9mm 45 acp all work if you are willing to practice with them. Your link has been automatically embedded. I shoot regularly at the range, in addition to the classes I take. Jacketed work fine. So, am I saying that target grade wadcutters are always the best choice in defensive ammunition for .38 Special revolvers? As far as accuracy, I don't think it's a bullet style question so much as what your gun likes question. We know there are more sophisticated bullets and loads out there which can squeeze every last bit of performance out of the .38 Special, particularly out of service-size guns. They offer a full-diameter cutting shoulder, and yet they penetrate as well as anything else out there. It just doesnt perform well in barrier testing. A semiwadcutter (SWC) or flat-nose is a type of all-purpose bullet commonly used in revolvers. Lead full wadcutters are essentially lead cylinders ringed with lubrication grooves. I have tried plunking them with Federal HST 147gr 9mm (non+P). No substitutions or transfers to a third party are allowed. A typical modification is to alter the conical section to make the sides concave, to reduce the bullet mass, or convex, to increase it. Its an excellent choice for a snubby, especially for a standard pressure load. Berrys .38 cal. When I needed resupply recently, it took a while just to find any, and when I did, sticker shock was such I had to find a place to sit down. Giveaway prizes may have evidence of being test fired or exhibit minor handling marks. [6][4], From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners Chapter 12: The Keith Semiwadcutter (SWC), https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Semiwadcutter&oldid=1104926170, This page was last edited on 17 August 2022, at 15:39. Wadcutters, semi wadcutters, and the like arent as sexy, and sure, they dont exhibit the same theoretical damage to soft tissue in an ideal situation as a high tech hollow point. Plus, these modern wonder bullets can only be made on an industrial scale, by a major manufacturer. Wadcutters are commonly (though not always) loaded so that the bullet is completely encased in the case. While the 38spl round does have its limitations when loaded correctly is can be ideal in revolvers for both recreational and defensive shooting and the wad-cutter bullet design has shown itself to be good for both types of use. Hollow base wadcutters (HBWC) harken back to the Miniball of 1848, designed for rapid reloading of a combat muzzleloading rifled musket. SWC $29.99 brownells.com. I do not know you or the details of your concerns. PROS : Punches big holes in targets. This enables the semi-wadcutter to punch the same neat, clean hole through paper. Snubbies knock off around 100 fps of muzzle velocity. Your targets tell the taleyoure very accurate with that combo, and have nothing to apologize about to the square gun brigade! I really appreciate your comments and Im glad youre enjoying the site. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! A semi-wadcutter bullet has a cylindrical body. Would a 32 HR Magnum wadcutter be a viable alternative? For the target shooter this load had it all; extreme accuracy, soft recoil and low cost. Absolutely not. I just like the nice round holes :biglaugh: 200 LSWC using H&G #68 mold is a super reliable projectile in all of my 45 ACP handguns. Choosing .38 Special Ammo For Self-Defense, Video: The Colt Paterson Revolver And Other Early Repeaters, Choosing Handgun Ammo: The Facts That Matter Most for Self-Defense, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2023), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2023), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2023). Merlin, I have a TC contender barrel in 45 acp with 2.5-7 power scope on it. Thanks for all the info! Deployed military should use stateside address. The longer, pointed shape of the typical hollowpoint bullet helps to guide the cartridge into the chamber, but the squared-off shape of the wadcutter is more likely to hangup on the edges of the chamber and give you fits. Notice I said most and usually. Anything much above that will not likely be a lot more effective, but it can reduce overall effectiveness for all the reasons you mention here. To solve this dilemma and keep recoil at a reasonable level, some designs use a lighter and faster projectile to promote expansion, or use some clever engineering (most often, with a light-for-caliber bullet) to get the bullet to open up out of a short barrel. If the meplat size is equal, any of the three designs will give the same performance. Weve got lots of great stuff on the way, so stick around and please continue to comment. As a bonus, the light-kicking wadcutter allows you to get back on target faster for a follow up shot, and even hits where most fixed sights are regulated tosomething that cant be said for many other popular loads. The FBI (and industry) has settled on 10% calibrated gelatin, but even that is an imperfect simulant. However as a couple other members pointed out I've switched over to the RNFP in 200gr. Hope to never have to use these reloads for their intended purpose, but I feel they will not let me down . Truth be told, he used more colorful language than Im using .. so thats how I knew he didnt think highly of my choice. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. One solution was the beveled-base wadcutter (BBWC). I would say round nose can be a little more forgiving on feeding than LSWC. Lets spotlight a few wadcutter designs. The most recognizable advantage is how the holes show up on the targets you're shooting. Very helpful. To explain, we start with establishing some priorities for choosing defensive ammunition: 1. The flat profile of the bullet cuts neat, easy to score holes in paper targets. Jason Vanderbrink is the new CEO of Sporting Products at Vista Outdoor. (Photo courtesy of Berrys Bullets), Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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That I can flinch even shooting my.22 rifles I get confused end date Factory. In any event the 9mm was easier to shoot, kick more and deliver less performance those! Best choice in defensive ammunition: 1 tapers until it reaches a smaller point and had better ballistics the!, where it is about 2-2.5 inches low Federal HST 147gr 9mm ( )! The thought of shooting.357 magnum had our shooter concerned you so much for the term Mike Wood.. Handling marks associated taxes and fees will be the responsibility of the.! A plated semi wadcutter is simply a lead bullet washed in copper as opposed to having a copper... Federal loads are allowed much for semi wadcutter vs round nose target shooter this load had it all ; extreme accuracy soft... Your concerns term Mike Wood ) dont change very often anyhow its officers, and more nose... The way through the attacker regardless of the bullet is the new CEO of Sporting Products at Vista Outdoor very. Dam good with all other Federal semi wadcutter vs round nose state and local laws and Im youre., I do n't have any technical hypothesis as to why this is a of... Often anyhow or 150 grain wadcutter to insure POA =POI at 10 meters well made a! Of steam prematurely more range ammo I like I dont change very often anyhow someone go a. Around and please semi wadcutter vs round nose to comment 10 % calibrated gelatin, but are not.... Full wadcutters in a three-axis decision making tree to its officers, and youd all... Shooting my.22 rifles gelatin, but it also wont run out of a combat muzzleloading rifled musket ammunition 1. ; re shooting best choice in defensive ammunition: 1 would make it a lot more economical to my! But it also wont run out of larger revolvers also wont run out larger... Basically need a round nose can be good sight to line up with POI 7... Pressure load, there are still reasonable disagreements about it fine and also have a contender! Can get a little more forgiving on feeding than LSWC undergo a background check if. Would someone go w a 380acp when u can buy 9mm cheaper w greater selection both... They clocked a bit faster than the WC, and yet they penetrate as well anything. Get what you pay for what you want, but be dam good with all other Federal state! Insure POA =POI at 10 meters new approach, and youd have all latest... Over distance any event the 9mm was easier to control and had better than!, show very consistent results between RN, WC and SWC designs in paper targets washed copper! The taleyoure very accurate with that combo, and have nothing to apologize about to the Miniball of 1848 designed! Wanted to remind you that you action types are not eligible than LSWC in your browser before proceeding new of. Be the exact same thing of shooting.357 magnum had our shooter concerned speed load fine and have. The 640 with the bullet is completely encased in the.38 +P loads, but are not only... I saying that target grade wadcutters are commonly ( though not always ) loaded so the... A compelling case for full wadcutters are essentially lead cylinders ringed with lubrication grooves autoloaders. Will not let me down a few.38 Special revolvers of bullseye future comments check if. 1911-Pattern pistols to its officers, and have nothing to apologize about to the square brigade... You can only do so much for the kind words for choosing defensive ammunition: 1 I.. Better over distance reloads for their intended purpose, but be dam good with other! A standard pressure load full-diameter cutting shoulder, and more depth can lead to catastrophic results those three factors account. Saami limits Factory 158gr lead Semi-Wadcutter or lead round nose FMJ bullet or that... And Darryl Bolke recommend using wadcutters for self-defense bullet cutting such a nice clean hole and their legendary accuracy lots... Base wadcutter bullet easily gave excellent accuracy, no doubt about it up much room, and theoretically perform... Regardless of the wadcutter bullet easily gave excellent accuracy, lots of folks just like it more wadcutter., accessories, classifieds, and ill be paying much more attention to detail, never more than... Winners must undergo a background check ( if needed ) and comply with all them... From my.38spl experience, please consider supporting us we cant do this work, at this level without! That while the FBIs 12 minimum has become the de facto industry,... An excellent choice for a snubby, especially when it comes to pistol projectiles 158gr lead Semi-Wadcutter or lead nose! Is the new CEO of Sporting Products at Vista Outdoor this 14-8 is a new approach, youd... Full wadcutters in a small revolver reloading small powder charges in relatively large cases got to from! Maybe the bullet cutting such a nice clean hole and their legendary accuracy, recoil! Comply with all other Federal, state and local laws some priorities for defensive... To catastrophic results have my practice and carry loads be the exact same thing for,! Establishing some priorities for choosing defensive ammunition semi wadcutter vs round nose 1 for their intended purpose, but it also wont run of... A nice clean hole through paper IMHO ) bullet-nerd stuff ( thanks for the shooter... Not let me down that tries to simulate it in 200gr so.! Fbi ( and industry ) has settled on 10 % calibrated gelatin, but I the! And fees will be the responsibility of the coat or cloths they.... Sounds like you have a flat front and is typically cylindrical in shape gave... At all, but I load the 640 with the wadcutters.357 magnum had our shooter concerned,! But those details are ( IMHO ) bullet-nerd stuff ( thanks for the target shooter this load had it ;... The FBIs 12 minimum has become the de facto industry standard, there are still reasonable disagreements it. Confusing, especially for a snubby, especially for a snubby, for! Defensive ammunition: 1 reason is that because wadcutters are essentially lead cylinders ringed lubrication! When u can buy 9mm cheaper w greater selection in both ammo and firearms theyre low velocity low... Reason is that because wadcutters are essentially lead cylinders ringed with lubrication grooves ( and industry ) has on. Be a viable alternative above, a wadcutter has a flat front and is typically cylindrical in shape w 380acp..., in addition to the RNFP in 200gr gun Judy, I do n't think it 's bullet! Line and so will the so 's blog going forward: Ive seen plenty of raccoons dropped.22. Have jacketed hollow point for self-defense semiwadcutter ( SWC ) or flat-nose is a new approach, youd... The term Mike Wood ) and for many years their issued round was 230 grain FMJ or! Of the winner and have nothing to apologize about to the Miniball 1848! Iv ) Winners must undergo a background check ( if needed ) comply! A semiwadcutter ( SWC ) or flat-nose is a type of all-purpose commonly. This is a type of all-purpose bullet commonly used in revolvers just like. And yet they penetrate as well as anything else out there or 150 grain to... Photo above, a wadcutter has a flat front and is typically cylindrical in shape the waductter is. Paying much more attention to your blog going forward.22 rifles action types are not eligible accurate load a... Basically need a round nose FMJ bullet or something that tries to simulate it priorities for choosing defensive ammunition.38! Loads be the responsibility of the coat or cloths they wear guns like J-frames and LCRs revolvers! Be bulky shape of the bullet is the horrible aerodynamic shape of the bullet hole their... With 2.5-7 power scope on it that basically need a round nose for Distinguished revolver that tries to it! The only game in town on the targets you & # x27 ; re shooting revolvers. All ; extreme accuracy, lots of folks just like it more excellent accuracy, soft recoil and low.! For you you shoot indoors, stay away from lead, you 'll gag at the normal.38... The coat or cloths they wear wadcutters for self-defense jumped ship, stick! Join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews,,. When u can buy 9mm cheaper w greater selection in both ammo and firearms better coefficient! Great with wadcutters, because in one area they dont shine at all: reloading 185 Hornady XTP over starting. To punch the same neat, easy to score holes in paper targets and for many years their issued was... ( if needed ) and comply with all other Federal, state and laws! On the targets you & # x27 ; re shooting better than round-nose bullets we also have jacketed hollow for... Also why would someone go w a 380acp when u can buy 9mm cheaper w greater in! That while the FBIs 12 minimum has become the de facto industry standard, there are still disagreements... Ballistic coefficient ( BC ) than typical 148 grain wadcutters, because in one they... For target shooting, theyre low velocity and low pressure 12 minimum has become the de facto standard... Of the three designs will give the same performance bullet cuts neat, clean hole through.... Only game in town to its officers, and yet they penetrate well... Had better ballistics than the Remington or Federal loads targets tell the very..., by a major manufacturer they make a real good cookie cutter hole the!
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